bujinkan, a serious debate

[deralte]

Bujinkan on Saturday had a really good theme. The idea of attacking hard, then soft, then hard, then soft again. So like, first was a hard block to a right punch, then you gently used the right hand you used to block to follow the fist back to their chest, while stepping back to avoid the second punch (people automatically pull back their opposite first when they're punching), then quickly bring the fist near their chest up to hit them under the chin and bring it around to extend their left arm out at a 45 or so degree angle behind them (your other hand comes up to block), then ever so gently guide them a few inches further then take your hands away. They drop. We did a lot of things that mirrored this pattern throughout the class. Twas nice.

Currently, inspired by this, my brother and I are debating who would win in a battle between Vader and Magneto. Kirk is arguing that Vader would just force choke Magneto and I'm arguing that the force choke is too slow and Magneto would just flip the lightsaber so it sliced through Vader's head. Thoughts?

Comments

[ashfae.livejournal.com]

Vader. He could use the force to stop the lightsaber flip as soon as it began to happen. Forcechoke might take a few minutes but it's a few minutes where you're distracted by not being able to breathe.

That said, the real argument is that Vader is more than half machine; Magneto could just crush his armor around him, or even just break one crucial part here or there. So hmmmmmmm, tough call.

[deralte.livejournal.com]

I still think that Vader's concentration isn't good enough to force choke and stop a lightsaber flip. However, like you, my brother and I agreed that Magneto's best bet would be to crush things inside Vader's armour.

All things considered, they're surprisingly evenly matched.

[ashfae.livejournal.com]

I'm deeply annoyed with myself for not being able to come up with a reason why Vader would just plain win, actually. He's Vader.

[deralte.livejournal.com]

Apparently being a master of magnetism is a lot closer to be a sith lord than we realized...

[ashfae.livejournal.com]

Perhaps they'd be more likely to get along. Vader and Magneto, best buds. ...oddly compelling mental image.

[deralte.livejournal.com]

I would read that fic.

re: icon (^-^) It's by iconomicon

[ashfae.livejournal.com]

Also, THAT ICON!!!!! <3

[greensword.livejournal.com]

Isn't the Force kind of like having Magneto's power only over everything, not just metal? Plus the ability to shoot lightning bolts out of your fingers?

[deralte.livejournal.com]

And yet Vader never masters the whole force lightning bolts so I don't think he has much of an advantage on Magneto.

[greensword.livejournal.com]

Is it in the extended canon that he can't do the lightning bolts? Because maybe he just didn't get around to using them on people during the movies.

[deralte.livejournal.com]

Nah, it's my headcanon (though I don't think he ever used the force lightning in any of the books). See, I figured if he could do force lightning, he'd have used it on the Emperor in Return of the Jedi or at least re-channeled it when the Emperor shocked him. (An argument could be made that he could do it before then though, but because Luke got to him, he couldn't get a grasp on it in RotJ *shrugs*)

Vader Versus Magneto

[(Anonymous)]

I give the edge to Magneto since he could crush every metal piece in Vader's two legs, hand, helmet, mask & chest control box. Vader might still last for a few seconds, but Vader's bragging about the power of force aside, I doubt Vader could maintain a force choke hold on Magneto once his legs, hand, and breathing mask had been ripped off and crushed.

In desperation, Vader might try the "lightning bolts out the hand" attack and possibly badly wound Magneto, but Vader would still be doomed without his breathing mask.

However, although the "Jedi Mind Trick" would not affect Magneto because he has that mental shield helmet, perhaps Vader could initially attack by pulling the helmet off with the force and *then* doing the Jedi mind trick to Magneto so he thinks "this isn't the Vader I was looking for" & Vader then light sabers his head off.

In the end, Magneto would be battered and bruised, but Vader would almost certainly be dead.
--JSTL

Re: Vader Versus Magneto

[deralte.livejournal.com]

I think it largely depends on who has the edge in terms of knowing the other person's weakness, and I think that edge goes to Magneto since he'd know Vader was made of metal while Vader without being able to sense Magneto's mind, wouldn't be aware of Magneto's powers or aware that the helmet blocked the force.

I always thought Vader wasn't in tune enough with the dark side to manage decent force lighting.

I think that if neither of them were quick enough, it would just end up a stalemate with each one 'blocking' the other from doing things. But Magneto has the advantage if he acts fast.